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Author Topic: proud enough to bust a gusset!  (Read 5086 times)

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Elena

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Re: proud enough to bust a gusset!
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2006, 07:48:06 PM »

A tired dog means just that tired -  not an exhausted dog, or a dog pushed beyond endurance - in the dog world it is the same thing as a person getting a sufficiency of whatever level of exercise is appropriate for their needs and the feeling of comfort and accomplishment that accompanies it.  For my neighbor's dog, Baby, a two year old American Pitt who is has the most incredible energy level I've ever seen, it means a good hour and a half of vigorous Frisbee chasing over rough terrain - for my Boomer it meant a gentle stroll past the four houses to the corner and back.  Both of them wound up very happily tired and satisfied with life doing what met their needs.

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Ingrid

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Re: proud enough to bust a gusset!
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2006, 01:33:40 PM »

I had a look at those sites to understand what is going on.  Seems to me the dogs are forced to work quite hard, while the humans (perfectly young and capable humans) let themselves be pulled about. And apparently, it's normally one dog per person!.  For what? This amuses the humans. You know that this can and will lead to animal abuse, especially in competition.

Put me down as being totally opposed to this "sport."  The situation might be a bit fairer if both human and dog run, and even that can get out of hand for an older dog.

Ingrid
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Elena

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Re: proud enough to bust a gusset!
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2006, 02:54:21 PM »

Ingrid I am very sorry you are willing to make an irrevocable judgment on something about which you know nothing.  Do continue to stick to little dogs.  If by any chance you decide to educate yourself about the role of dogs and humans over millennium read up on the work of the midsize and larger breeds at the AKC web site.

It's one thing to encourage controversy and discussion - it's another thing to slam a world of people  whom you are only willing to view through your narrow filter.

You are missing out on a lot and I really feel for you.
Elena
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Ingrid

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Re: proud enough to bust a gusset!
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2006, 05:21:28 PM »

I have absolutely no patience with people who are unable to put themselves in an animal's place.  And I do know about dogs.  It has nothing to do with size. There is nothing wrong with small dogs, and it is uncalled for to sneer at people who own them.

Sorry, I don't intend to be polite on this issue and I certainly don't see that there is anything to be proud about in being dragged around by a dog!

Ingrid
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ella

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Re: proud enough to bust a gusset!
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2006, 06:03:36 PM »

Actually, the dogs do tell us when they are tired by their body language, change of pace, their attitude.
Mira is my service dog. She’s had a lot of training. I have NO intention of ruining her. I need her to be healthy and strong as long as possible.  She’s a medium sized dog, a Belgain Sheepdog, which needs exercise to maintain good health. I started bikejoring so she could get at least some exercise. I can’t walk far enough, fast enough, long enough for her. She goes relatively slowly at a trot, probably to keep me safe. She rarely goes faster than a slow trot, except after the rabbit or squirrel ahead. Our standard is about a 10-15 minute mile once a day (when I can). Four miles an hour.  Healthy humans walk that fast, and a lot farther.
People who do this for fun have a lot of time and money invested in this sport, and will not purposely damage their dogs. They are (generally) well fed, hydrated, and healthy. We make stops for rest as needed by the dogs, and in my case, for me.
Because she has been trained to, Mira stands calmly for harnessing. Once we are at the bike, she steps out and is pulling before I get on. If you follow the posts and info on those sites, you will see that is true for most, if not all, the members. Mira enjoys this probably more than I do. She especially likes it when our friends join us, and will trot a bit faster.
She has never chased a ball or Frisbee beyond 2-3 times, but she loves bikejoring.

Do some research and learn how the dogs really like it.
They get so excited they can hardly contain themselves. Do the dogs at
http://www.fchfoto.redweb.cz/www/sport-en.htm   or links look unhappy or abused?
Those dogs are loving what they’re doing.
Here’s another:
http://home.comcast.net/~floridamusher/index.html   then
Click here for the Hip-Hop sled dogs

In mushing races, the drivers usually need handlers to hold the dogs they are so excited to get going. With our 3 dogs here, that is also the case, on a smaller basis, barking, starting off post haste, and generally very enthusiastic.

The situation might be a bit fairer if both human and dog run, and even that can get out of hand for an older dog.
Bikejoring strengthens her entire body, increases stamina, helps her mentally and emotionally, enables her to move at HER natural speed, whether it’s a walk, trot, lope or gallop.  Studies show pulling helps with hip dysplasia problems, apparently because pulling builds the stronger muscles. Mira does not LO-O-O-VE it as many dogs do, but she thoroughly, totally enjoys it.

Normally one dog per person. No, not necessarily so. Many have 2 dogs or more, and the dogs can pull easily 3 times their weight. And remember, bikejoring is done on wheels, so the effort required is even less.
Here’s more info for you:   www.rjwalsh.com.au/mini/cartspeed.htm
Anybody who’s competing in sanctioned races has to have healthy dogs and that means even during training. Anybody who’s doing it for sport wants their dogs healthy and happy, too.
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ella

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Re: proud enough to bust a gusset!
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2006, 06:06:08 PM »

the dogs we run with are much faster, and most on the forums go at a standard of probably over 8 miles an hour.
Samson, the Border Collie, runs 8-10 mph pulling his dad for 4-5 miles, and Grunt, a smaller Chow, often outruns Samson. Mira's the slowpoke, lol!
« Last Edit: December 12, 2006, 06:10:02 PM by ella »
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dhparker

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Re: proud enough to bust a gusset!
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2006, 07:23:52 AM »

Ella, I had never heard of this before, but I think it sounds great.  So many of the working breeds which are now pets have no acceptable way to use the awesome energy and skills that are instinctive to them.  Our wonderful mixed breed (husky, german shepherd, collie), now deceased, loved to run and pull.  This would have suited her perfectly.

penny

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Re: proud enough to bust a gusset!
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2006, 09:42:57 AM »

Not knowing much about dogs - I must say this does sound like a great way for working breeds to use their energy. It may be suited to certain breeds and mixes more than to others, in which case I believe the owners would switch dogs for the sport, and not work them too hard.

I also feel that we're living in great times if we can argue about the dogs' wellbeing - pro and con. In darker ages nobody would consider them at all!

Penny
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linda

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Re: proud enough to bust a gusset!
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2006, 08:29:17 PM »

Boy, I really don't like to jump into heated discussions, but I can't resist on this topic.  So here's my long-winded response to all this;

Over the years I have owned many working dogs; bloodhounds, shepherds, farm dogs and more.  Training with a working breed has always been the highlight of their, and my, life.  Most dogs love having a purpose. 

I was pregnant with my daughter when I owned Alex, my Schutzhund shepherd.  As the months passed, I had to stop training him for a while.  Alex pouted.  Alex would drag out his training gear and lay it in front of me, then look up at me with those big brown eyes.  When I still didn't take him to training, Alex grumbled.  Alex actually looked like he was trying to stomp his feet.  Alex began destroying things.  The final straw was when my excellently house-trained dog brought in his training harness and, when I didn't put it on him, lifted a leg and deliberately urinated on my book shelf right in front of me.  And looked me in the eye the entire time he was doing it.  He was making the fact that he missed training very, very clear to me.

My bloodhound lived for tracking.  She grew so excited when I brought out the tracking harness that she wouldn't hold still long enough for me to get it on her.  I now own a Great Pyrenees and a Border Collie on my farm.  If I let her run the Border will go and gather livestock, with or without me, just because she loves doing the work.  The Pyrenees, although more laid back, was so thrilled when I finally got some goats that he immediately stopped sleeping in the house.  He now sleeps close to his flock and I can't get him to spend the night inside regardless of the weather.  He will come in to visit for a while, but soon he's at the door, whining and anxious to get back to his flock. 

And my third dog?  My Chihuahua?  She firmly believes that her work in life is to keep my lap warm by sitting on it.  And the two big dogs respect her place there.  Occasionally she will retrieve a small ball for me, but her heart isn't really in it.  While it may not seem like much, it is what she considers to be her job and she does it just as zealously as the Border and the Pyrenees. 

To keep a dog, large or small, contained in a house without any form of stimulation or purpose is what I would consider cruelty.  The same for dogs that are chained in the back yard without any form of human contact except when they are thrown feed and water. 

The dogs in the websites posted by Ella are interacting with humans, they're interacting with other dogs, they're getting some much needed exercise, and they obviously seem to be enjoying themselves.  I'm sure this group is like any other dog training group I've ever been in; they love their dogs and they will not stand to see any animal abused. I've also known from these training groups that, if the dog doesn't like the activity he doesn't do well at it. 

We had a Rottweiler at one of the Schutzhund groups who liked tracking and obedience, but he hated the attack/protection work.  The owner would send Smuggler out to attack the "bad guy" and Smuggler would go out slowly, bark once without enthusiasm, grab the sleeve and then turn to his owner to see if he was finished.  The owner had to tell him "out" since he did take the bite even if his heart obviously wasn't in it.  As soon as Smuggler heard the word "out" he rushed to the sidelines where we girls were sitting on the grass.  With a sigh, he'd lay on the laps of at least four of us, roll on his back and let his expressive eyes and lolling tongue tell us what a trauma he'd been through.  The owner finally got a Rottweiler that enjoyed all of the Schutzhund work and trained him.  Smuggler went along for company and for attention on the sideline.   

You really can't train a dog well who does not enjoy what he's doing.  And these people invest a lot of time in the training, they will bring a dog who enjoys the work or find some type of working sport that their dog does like.

Linda

 
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Elena

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Re: proud enough to bust a gusset!
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2006, 09:14:13 PM »

Thank you Linda and Ella - I too love dogs - my last, Boomer was a 120 lb yellow lab/Akita mix, 4 yr old rescue and special needs.  From abuse and neglect his back legs didn't work well and he had problems with fear aggression.  I worked with him until he became a happy, good citizen.  But, he wanted a job - being the handsomest dog in the house wasn't enough.  One afternoon at a park we met a group of special needs teenagers on an outing.  Boomer loved every one of them - wheel chairs, crutches, walkers it didn't matter - he knew exactly where to place himself so they could pet him if they wanted.  He actually gently maneuvered his head under the hand of a young lady with severe cerebral palsy so she could 'pet' him.  From then on he was their mascot - I got their schedule and made sure "their" dog was with them for all events possible.  He even could go on the bus with them because they had a lift.  He couldn't walk stairs.  His mobility problems helped them in so many ways.  I miss him so much, and I know his kids do too.

My health isn't stable enough to have another dog, but my neighbors bring theirs around and I go to dog parks and enjoy watching.  I have really enjoyed reading about your wonderful dogs and wish you long journeys of love with them.

Elena
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dhparker

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Re: proud enough to bust a gusset!
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2006, 09:05:12 AM »

I also feel that we're living in great times if we can argue about the dogs' wellbeing - pro and con. In darker ages nobody would consider them at all!

Penny

Penny, you are so right!  Despite all the darkness in the world, we are blessed beyond measure and I thank God daily. 
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