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[tae]

I'm a beginner writer. I've completed a few NaNoWriMos but nothing stunning (or readable), so I'd really appreciate some experienced advice.

I'm at the plotting-and-planning stage of writing some mystery novels.
I've got plenty of ideas for the murder itself - people of interest in the case and how my detective might find her way through the clues to the truth... but I don't have a clear picture of my detective.
I keep picturing myself in her place - and while I'm sure I'm fascinating... I'm probably not gripping fiction.

I'd like to steer clear of the heavy police procedural stuff - which is why I'm looking at more of a cozy feel to the stories. So I'm not looking for the detective to be police, PI or similar... but I'm not really sure what the alternatives are.
She's a member of the community that the book is about - I'm planning on setting it amongst geeks, in particular amongst ren-faire/medieval re-eneactors (at least for the first book)... and I'm sure I can contrive for her to get tangled up in the investigation for the first book, but I'm not sure how I'd do it again without it becoming too contrived.

I've got a few ideas for different book-plots and while it may be wishful thinking to be planning more than one story at this time - I'd like to build the first one with at least the possibility of my detective still being around so I can do the other ones too. Of course - it's possible I could simply write a completely different detective for the other book ideas... but I like the idea of having somebody familiar - so that I don't have to introduce them the second time, so they can be a common thread in the books, and so I can grow the character over time. It also seem to be reasonably common practice amongst mystery writing to have a detective for a whole series.

So I guess I'm at a bit of a loss.

Is it better to build a single detective for multiple books, and how can I get her involved in the cases without bringing in the heavy police procedural details?

Thanks in advance


PS: was encouraged by this post:
http://mwf.ravensbeak.com/forum/chat/some-words-of-encouragement-and-thanks/

thanks for saying it's ok...

[Old Bill]

Tae.  You offered me some good comments on my work so it shows that you know what the reader is looking for.  I wish you luck on your first MS.

I agree with you that if I based a character on me, it would be a fabulous seller for insomniacs.    So we have to make a protag from a composite of lots of people both known and those flitting around in our imagination.  Sounds like you are heading for a Murder She Wrote type of novel, which as a cozy may work okay (although it usually drives the 'procedural' types up the wall).  Somewhere along the line you will need police intervention and I will give you the same advice I give others...if you know any cops, talk with them and get a feel of actual police work.  If you don't know any, take a trip to your local PD or Sheriff's Office and meet some (I usually encourage writers to send a letter of intro first to the head honcho as a matter of courtesy and door opener.  Shows them you are a professional and not a nut case).

I wouldn't worry too much about writing the first novel as a series.  If it works out that the protag is really interesting you'll know it soon enough and it should be easy to carry her into the next one.  But remember that the reader may start a series after the first one and you'll still need to give lots of background to the protag or else the reader will be lost.  (I killed off my protag in Ticket To Murder and it really PO'd some of my beta readers.  So I guess there won't be any series there.) 

Anyway, good luck.

Old Bill

[Lance Charnes]

You need to decide whether you want a series character.

If this is a one-off, you have more freedom to choose your main character. He/she may credibly become involved in the investigation because of his/her specialist connection to the victim's (or main suspect's) milieu (i.e., Ren faire), and so doesn't need to have a professional excuse.

You mentioned the problem with a recurring amateur detective: his/her reasons for being in the middle of a murder inquiry become more contrived with each case. The logical end for this is the old joke that you don't want to invite Jessica Fletcher to your dinner party, because someone will end up dead.

So, if you want a recurring amateur detective who doesn't strain credulity, he/she should have some skill or profession that could lead him/her to be called upon to weigh in on murder cases. Archaeologist? Historian? Insect expert? Plant expert? Are these active, working murder investigations -- meaning the police will not welcome interference from amateurs -- or cold cases? Are they all going to be in the same general milieu?

You may have set up a false dilemma for yourself. There's a lot of territory between Ed McBain and Lillian Jackson Braun, and you can pick any point along that continuum. No matter what flavor of story you end up with, if your MC has some skill that sets him/her apart -- even if it's quilting -- you'll need to know more than a little about it in order to show how the MC solves the crime. In that way, every story becomes a procedural of some sort, perhaps just not a police procedural. Good luck.

[tae]

Hi and thanks to both of you.

It's definitely planned to be an active case  - and indeed I was thinking about whether or not she would be getting in the way of the investigation - or trying to help, or a combination of the two. But I was definitely aiming for an amateur sleuth, rather than somebody already in the profession - though I figured that sleuth skills is something she could pick up over repeated exposure.

To begin with, the only specialist skill I'm looking at for my character is in-depth knowledge of the people/culture involved - which will give her insights into the kinds of motivations and conflicts likely to exist... this is why I was aiming at a cozy style. but as a geeky type she'd be well-read and have a lot of random knowledge... probably suffering from the CSI-effect.

My initial thought was actually that I could have her conveniently working at the police station fixing/setting up their IT system, and thus being around them when the case comes in. I was thinking a friend of hers could get dragged past in cuffs -> their main suspect... and he yells at her that he's innocent and can she please help him catch the real killer...

The other thought was to make it a "locked house" kind of mystery somehow - eg by setting it in a remote location cutoff by foul weather... but not entirely sure I could pull that off as well... and while I'm sure I'd smile indulgently at the stereotypical high bodycount around my sleuth... I'd not really take seriously a sleuth who was repeatedly found cutoff from modern-day technology by freak rainstorms...

Or she could be just tentatively dating a policeman - and when they each get dragged into the thick of it, he gets pulled into her world as she's pulled into his....

Of course I still need to make her interesting enough for the reader to want to get dragged into her life.
I'm sure I can make the reenactor's world interesting enough - just trying to map out a part for her, and that's why I'm a bit stuck.
I have my murderer and other people of interest and their motivations. But she's a blank piece.

The question is: do I make her a separate person looking in, or make her a necessary part of the action? If I do the former - she can become part of a series, if I do the latter - it's setting it up to be a one-off (as the situation dragging her in will not likely recur). It's early enough days that I can still mould it either way. but I do have several other ideas for mystery stories in this line... which is why I'm giving it thought.

anyway - not decided yet, but appreciative of your comments (and any more are definitely welcome!).

[MTH]

If you think of a plot, then you know what sort of characters you'll have and what roles they play, at
least in broad outline. How do you want your detective to know about the crime? Related, onlooker, victim, researcher who
stumbles on the crime, etc. Your crime should tell you the most interesting way to do this. Once you start writing you'll see
how your characters interact and you can change them to suit. As you go, you'll find lots of new possibilities and make
so many changes you might not even recognize the final product.
Mickey

[dhparker]

This may sound entirely off the wall, but do you know your character?  Does she have a name?  Can you see her face in your head?  Do you know what kinds of food she likes, her favorite color, book, tv show, music, etc?  What's her greatest fear?  Is she religious?  How many languages does she speak?  Who is her best friend?  Her worst enemy? Where did she grow up?  How does she interact with her family?

I mention all this because I can never get a good grip on a story until I can "see" my main character.  I have to have exactly the right name.  (I know it's right when the story begins to flow.)  Sometimes I need to see a face, so I look at faces (in magazines, catalogs, National Geographic, the local grocery, whatever) until I get one that clicks.  Sometimes I can see the character by picking an actor who might be good in the part and imagine him or her in the role.

If you put "questions for fictional characters" into a search engine, you'll come up with several lists that may help.  Once you know your character thoroughly, her actions and reactions, and the trouble she gets into, should come more easily.

Sounds like an interesting story.  My sons are planning a visit to a medieval fair next weekend.    I would think that setting could be good for several mysteries.

[dhparker]

P.S.  Here's one very good set of questions to ask your character:  http://charactercreator.blogspot.com/2008/06/more-character-background-questions_14.html

[Lance Charnes]

Tae -- remember that "sleuth" does not equal "police." It's perfectly possible for someone who isn't a sworn police officer to help investigate a crime at the behest of a police agency, if that person has some kind of specialized expertise.

Because of her in-depth knowledge of the SCA/Ren-Faire underworld, your junior Geek Squaddie at the police station could well advise the lead detective on how that world works. Through this, she could become enmeshed in the investigation, especially if her friends (or enemies!) start turning up as suspects.

However...how many Ren Faire murder novels do you think you can get away with? If your MC's reason for being part of the investigation is her expert knowledge of the Ren Faire milieu, her reach is going to be pretty limited. It's something you need to consider if you want to build a series with this character.

By "a separate person looking in," do you mean making her a Watson to someone else's Holmes? That's been done successfully, of course (the Nero Wolfe series used the same device). But then you're still stuck with the same problem: who's your detective? How does he/she get involved in cases? What's his/her expertise? How does he/she solve crimes?

It seems this setting is what really interests you. Think about this: what part of the Ren Fair experience intrigues you the most? The history? The weaponry? The food? The theatricality? Once you nail that down, think about how that can expand into the wider world and be of use in criminal investigations. Could your MC be a historian specializing in that period (sideways detours into crimes in academia, art, archeology, even movies)? A culinary historian (opening for a series of food-related murders)? A weapons expert (interesting twist, there -- a female in a profession almost exclusively male)? If you want her to be a series character, give yourself a break and give her the widest possible reach within your interests.

I once had an idea for a series with a maritime archaeologist as the MC. After 2.5 novels now gathering digital dust on my computer, I came to the realization that her profession didn't lend itself to serial adventure. It's extremely disappointing when that happens. Don't do the same thing to yourself.

[Bob Mueller]

I once had an idea for a series with a maritime archaeologist as the MC. After 2.5 novels now gathering digital dust on my computer, I came to the realization that her profession didn't lend itself to serial adventure. It's extremely disappointing when that happens. Don't do the same thing to yourself.

Hmm. Sounds a lot like the Dirk Pitt series from Clive Cussler.

[Lance Charnes]

Not really. Dirk Pitt is James Bond with an American accent, or maybe Indiana Jones with a boat. I can't remember him doing any real archaeology in any of the half-dozen of his books I've read.

If anything, it was going to be something along the lines of Dana Cameron's Emma Fielding series, but in the water. Unfortunately, it's hard to "up the ante" on an amateur sleuth without stumbling over the line into the absurd; when the first fresh dead body shows up at the wreck site, the MC's job is over, and you can get away with a shadowy-forces-don't-want-the-wreck-explored story only once. There may be a one-off in there somewhere, but not a series, alas.

Come to think of it, the Emma Fielding series might be a good one for Tae to look at. (Tae? Still there?) Emma is an academic, an archaeologist specializing in colonial America, who conducts digs up and down New England (although she detours to Britain in one of the early books). Someone ends up dead at every dig. (No way am I going to intern for her.) They're semi-cozyish, the first is the best (I gave up after the third), and Cameron displays both the strengths and weaknesses of the genre. For all that, it's not a bad demonstration of how to work an expert amateur into a murder story.

[tae]

Thanks, this is some really good info for me.

I'm glad that it's at least plausible for there to be a non-police sleuth acting as an assistant in the investigation - as I think that's where I'm headed to begin with. I figure that if I want to continue with the topic, she can become enthused and maybe take a night class in forensic psychology or something...

Though I'm guessing I should cross that bridge when I come to it. As long as I keep open the options for moving more into the professional sleuthing world. I mean it'd be plausible for somebody to know that she helped out with 'that case in the SCA last year" and ask for her help to track down blah blah blah... then she's starting to become noticed around the precinct and they happened to turn up some inscrutable clue that seems related to prehistoric viking reenectors or whatever...

As to my interests in the renfaire world - and how that could lead me into other fields based on my own experience: I was recruited out of an archery club... somebody asked me "would you like to shoot at real people?"
Which led to field-archery (ie in wars rather than target-archery which is the standard for most "normal" people)
I then moved onto proper fencing. Not this silly sport stuff with only one hand, two swords, sword and shield, sword and dagger, cloak and dagger even... lots of fun. I then started selling the pointy stuff to the community (my tax accountant used to love saying he had an "arms dealer" on his books).
So yes, I can definitely see the "woman in a man's field" aspect of weapon-expertise.

But really I'm a generalist geek - and I'm a woman-in-a-man's world in more way than just pointy-objects. Maths, computers, martial-arts, SciFi, role-playing-games... there's actually a fair amount of "geek culture" to be explored. Think of a murder at a trek convention... or comic-con... or amongst Lovecraft fans...

But as to interests in the SCA specifically - mine are extremely wide. It's what draws me to the SCA community in that there's so much to learn. Medieval cooking (both personal cooking and feasts), singing, dancing, medieval games, sewing the beautiful clothes, making medieval style tents/campsites, fencing, archery, armouring, smithing, brewing (I'm good at making mead) etc etc... as I said - there's a lot this the world of the SCA... don't know why more people aren't interested... just that social stigma of dressing up and being considered "geeky".

[Cluebird]

Hi,

I realize this thread is from a few months ago, but I'd like to add my ideas.

I'm a huge fan of cozy mysteries, and I don't think police are always required. You can put them in for realism but keep them to the background of the story. Or your character could have some connection to one of the cops so you have an official source of information. Could be a love interest, although that seems to be overused at this point. Could be a relative or friend. Or how about this? Your character is a geek, knows IT (information technology) and so maybe has done some consulting work for the police department, maybe setting up their computer system, programming or testing their software, or providing computer security services.So your character would be respected by them and maybe they'd accept some amateur input when she discovers crimes.

You're seeing yourself in the main character's role - that's okay! You'll add details that make her different, but if she's some fictional version of you, you'll always identify with her. At some point, she may well take on a life of her own. Don't dismiss yourself as uninteresting. Cozies have had housewives and single women as detectives, and they are people we readers like to hang out with.

You mentioned that she knows the culture, the society, she's part of. So perhaps she's a sociologist, a social worker, a community activist, or just someone who is very interested in her community. Or maybe she's in IT, as I suggested before but takes an interest in SCA and other things as an avocation.

I don't think it's presumptuous to create her as a series character, even though it'll be your first book. You can set a few story arcs up that will carry readers to the next books in the series. And you don't have to worry about how she'll become involved in more crimes after the first. If you read other mystery series, you know the main character in most is not called in as a consultant but has a habit of stumbling into crimes. It's not realistic, but we readers can easily suspend disbelief about it. The whole idea of people murdering people strains belief anyhow.

I think the trend these days for cozies is that they are series books. How many mysteries of any kind are there today that aren't series books?

So, how to start writing when you don't have your character fully realized? Why not just write down the details you are sure of, assume she's you for now for the rest of it, and start writing. You know it'll be your first draft and that you'll be revising. Once you have her going through the scenes in the plot, you'll add in personality characteristics and lifestyle, and toss out some of the details you started with.

[Deb the Editress]

Hi --

I'm new here, so forgive me if anything here is over or under the line...

The word I'm seeing most of in your descriptions is "geek" -- especially "geek culture". I love that idea, personally -- Your list of geek meccas sounds like a series right there. I will volunteer here and now to beta-read a Lovecraftian cozy: "Murder in R'lyeh" perhaps?

Your weapons experience sounds fascinating -- I'm not quite sure I believe that basing it on yourself would be such a yawn, but I had a thought -- what about stage combat? Pretty much all the geek stuff you mention involves some kind of battle: superheroes, martial arts, SCA -- maybe she's hired to go to these things and help the staff or participants choreograph battles for demonstrations or stage shows? Maybe she's even set up to give lessons or workshops: "How to Battle the Forces of Darkness Without Taking Your Buddy's Head Off" or, for the Trek convention, "Self-Defense for Red Shirts"?

Stage combat could take you to all kinds of different settings: maybe she serves as a motion-capture model for a video-game designer. Or choreographs sword fights for a Shakespearian Repertory company. Or movie sets -- plenty of stuff there. The fact that you already know what you're talking about is pretty great.

I think there's a level at which readers will give you at least a little slack as far as "oops, I have stumbled onto yet another murder!" After all, it's a murder series, what the heck did they expect? But I agree with others -- don't worry about whether it's a series, just work on getting to know your character and making her interesting enough that you might have more to say about her.

As far as the Ren Faire setting, it sounds fantastic, a very lush setting.  You could have her there already, happily selling her pointy objects, when suddenly...??

Just my 2C.

Deb.

[KarensaK]

Raising the dead...

You may have long since worked this out by now but I'll toss this in the ring all the same as a more plausible way for the MC to wind up involved in sleuthing serial murders.

Consider that she's got a degree in journalism and has just been canned from a prestigious gig at a national paper and is looking for work. She picks up one main job at a local paper or online gig and may or may not be thrilled at being handed community culture human interest stories to cover, and the editor's nephew or whoever is into the whole cos play...and when the murder happens, the editor tasks your MC with the job of covering it.

As a serial work, during her investigation, she could begin stumbling over several other incidents that nobody ever connected, but she thinks there is a connection - and this gives you more room to have a number of different stories and an ongoing theme of her piecing together the whole thing. 

She could go under cover at any point and join in, offering to do a "newsletter" or renfaire newspaper or something to help get her on the inside or at least not be viewed too suspiciously when she's asking question.

If the renfaire aspect isn't a running theme, she could get a serious promotion with the paper after covering the initial story, into investigative reporting, take on a partner if needed, and have some street cred with various officials...and she gets on the scene early on because she's also a big police scanner fan.

Hope it helps

[Picaroon]

Hi,

The Renaissance fair theme has been done in cozies most recently by Joyce and Jim Laverne.. I have their complete series on my desk including Ghastly Glass, Wicked Weaves etc.  The series takes place in a yearly fair, and the protagonist is a history student who works in a different booth every year. 

I still haven't been able to read them all.. I can't seem to get past the first 4 or 5 chapters- they're so boring its incredible.  I've had them for over a year and keep trying to read them since I hate to waste money, but I can't do it.  So there should definitely be room in the market for a better series!

PS: The Laverne's aren't bad writers, I like their Missing Pieces series very much.  But something about their Renaissance Faire Mystery series fails to capture my interest.  And I like Renaissance fairs!

I'm a beginner writer. I've completed a few NaNoWriMos but nothing stunning (or readable), so I'd really appreciate some experienced advice.

I'm at the plotting-and-planning stage of writing some mystery novels.
I've got plenty of ideas for the murder itself - people of interest in the case and how my detective might find her way through the clues to the truth... but I don't have a clear picture of my detective.
I keep picturing myself in her place - and while I'm sure I'm fascinating... I'm probably not gripping fiction.

I'd like to steer clear of the heavy police procedural stuff - which is why I'm looking at more of a cozy feel to the stories. So I'm not looking for the detective to be police, PI or similar... but I'm not really sure what the alternatives are.
She's a member of the community that the book is about - I'm planning on setting it amongst geeks, in particular amongst ren-faire/medieval re-eneactors (at least for the first book)... and I'm sure I can contrive for her to get tangled up in the investigation for the first book, but I'm not sure how I'd do it again without it becoming too contrived.

I've got a few ideas for different book-plots and while it may be wishful thinking to be planning more than one story at this time - I'd like to build the first one with at least the possibility of my detective still being around so I can do the other ones too. Of course - it's possible I could simply write a completely different detective for the other book ideas... but I like the idea of having somebody familiar - so that I don't have to introduce them the second time, so they can be a common thread in the books, and so I can grow the character over time. It also seem to be reasonably common practice amongst mystery writing to have a detective for a whole series.

So I guess I'm at a bit of a loss.

Is it better to build a single detective for multiple books, and how can I get her involved in the cases without bringing in the heavy police procedural details?

Thanks in advance


PS: was encouraged by this post:
http://mwf.ravensbeak.com/forum/chat/some-words-of-encouragement-and-thanks/

thanks for saying it's ok...