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Author Topic: Nationality differences in dental work  (Read 11557 times)

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Lance Charnes

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Nationality differences in dental work
« on: October 21, 2006, 11:00:05 AM »

First post in the forum! Woo-hoo!

I'm trying to find out if there were sufficient national differences in the practice of dentistry in pre-WWII Europe to allow an experienced forensic anthropologist to examine the teeth in an unearthed skull and be able to make some judgement about where the deceased had his dental work done.

I don't even have a clue where to look for this kind of information. There are 337 books in Amazon that somehow relate to "dentistry + history" (including "Lacrosse: A History of the Game," which tells me more about lacrosse than I'd wanted to know), but so far nothing that sounds like it goes in the direction I'm heading.

Thoughts?
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Leon

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Re: Nationality differences in dental work
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2006, 11:11:19 AM »

Lance,

Contact an anthropologist. Perhaps a college dentistry. Or any branch of the military.

Leon
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Zara

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Re: Nationality differences in dental work
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2006, 11:18:48 AM »

I have a friend who is a dentist, I put the question to him, here is his answer:
They used a lot of gold teeth in those days. The dental association or council was created after WWII (don't know if it's relevent)

Can't it be said that a forensic would detect if the origin of the gold was from this or that country? And fillings, it was pure lead back then... just a thought :-\
Zara
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Ingrid

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Re: Nationality differences in dental work
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2006, 05:15:54 PM »

Also dental care was haphazard, so you would see a lot of poorly cared for teeth and many missing teeth.  Also no orthodontics. Europeans still don't believe in braces as standard for children. Hence the fun Americans make of British teeth.
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Dave Freas

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Re: Nationality differences in dental work
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2006, 06:58:36 PM »

Hi, Lance.

Let me check with my daughter.  Forensic Anthropology is her field, maybe she can provide an answer.

Dave
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Dave Freas

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Re: Nationality differences in dental work
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2006, 05:22:36 PM »

Hi, Lance (Pt.2)

My daughter asks:
How specific are you trying to get?  Do you want to distinguish europeans from americans or do you want to separate countries within europe, i.e., England vs. Germany or France?  Are you thinking allies vs. axis?

Let me know and I'll pass it on.

Dave
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Lance Charnes

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Re: Nationality differences in dental work
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2006, 11:05:34 AM »

Dave,

I'm specifically wanting to know if it's possible to tell a British skull from a German/Austrian skull.

The adult male skull is recovered from an aircraft at the bottom of a fresh-water lake, so although soft tissues are gone, there's very little environmental damage to bones or teeth.

The crash happened in the 1941-2 area; the skull is recovered in 2006.

Thanks for the help.
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Dave Freas

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Re: Nationality differences in dental work (long reply)
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2006, 01:44:57 PM »

Hi, Lance

Here's what my daughter had to say:
I'll ask around about the dental work and see what I can come up with.  There may be a big enough difference between British vs. Continental dental schools that the restorations (i.e. fillings, bridges, crowns) might be diagnostic, either in terms of materials or technique.

As far as the bones go, no, you wouldn't really be able to get any sort of separation between British and German/Austrian--Caucasian is Caucasian is Caucasian as far as the level of resolution that you're looking at here is concerned.

The only other thing that I can tell you right now that might be useful is that the guys from the CIL in Hawaii, who are still dealing with American servicemen's remains from WWII theaters of combat, don't just look at the bones for the ID.  They also look very closely at and rely very heavily on the material evidence that accompanies the remains--everything from equipment and uniforms to jewelry, watches, boots, eyeglasses etc.  They have huge indexes of when certain items were made and where they were available and during what years the military issued certain items with certain specs, and I think their info to a certain extent covers foreign militaries as well.  I'd imagine that other governments have similar indexes that would be useful in their own specific ID efforts.  My point here is that if these remains were recovered from an aircraft in a freshwater lake, then there still should be diagnostic material evidence present, such as (1) THE AIRCRAFT and (2) things like the flight suit and parachute.  Organic fabrics may have broken down, but many military uniforms (esp. flight suits) were and are made from synthetics that should still be preserved.  Depending on the conditions in the lake and the condition of the airplane, organic fabrics may be preserved as well.  Even if it's only a small scrap, that's usually enough for a positive ID by an expert.  The textile guys at the CIL are phenomenal.  Similarly, the boot leather may have deteriorated, but the SOLES of the boots should be diagnostic, since presumably the Germans and Brits were not using the same type of boots.  Other things that I would think would be diagnostic would be a watch--I highly doubt a British pilot would be wearing a German watch, and vice versa--and perhaps the parachute, since I think there were probably slight differences in their configuration and construction.  The chutes were probably made from Nylon, I think, so it may still be preserved.  You'd also expect to find things like rank insignia or other little details from the uniform that should be durable under these conditions.  Also, sometimes its the weirdest little details--things like zippers or buttons or ripcords, or the shape of the knobs and switches on the control console of the plane, or the latch on the plane canopy--that are actually the most diagnostic.  The key with things like this is to
not overlook the little details.

It seems to me, based on my (granted, limited) experience and on the information at hand, that this ID is much more likely to be accomplished via material evidence, rather than via the skeleton or any dental work therein.  There's just a lot more to go on, especially since it's a military casualty, where the individual's entire appearance is designed to distinguish him from the enemy. There should be more than enough information in the material evidence alone to distinguish British from German/Austrian.  The bones may be a non-starter as far as this goes--but certainly would be much more useful for a personal ID once you know which army you're dealing with.  But there again, you run into some snags because solders (especially from the WWII era) all pretty much fall into the same demographic--i.e. white males aged 18-45.  You'll get some separation there with the age ranges (in that higher ranking officers and NCO's are usually older than lower ranking offers/enlisted...think of the classic war story device of a grizzled old Sergeant who's been to hell and back, under the
command of the fresh-faced, just out of West Point Lieutenant.), but that might be less useful in a highly specialized group, such as pilots, who will fall into a much narrower age range (I'd guess about 25 to 35 years of age).  Fortunately, there are also fewer pilots in general, so that narrows down the options, makes it more of a closed-system.

I'll let you know if I think of, or find, anything else.  I hope this helps.


And let me add this:  I would imagine most armies issued some sort of Identification device (remember dogtags?) to their men.

To echo my daughter:  Hope this helps.

Dave
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Ingrid

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Re: Nationality differences in dental work
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2006, 01:57:44 PM »

My thought exactly, Dave. In 41/42, it would have been pretty odd for a German to get into a British plane and vice versa.  The plane should tell its own story.  And then, of course, there are clothes, jewelry, and documentation about that particular flight.

Ingrid
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linda

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Re: Nationality differences in dental work
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2006, 04:07:56 PM »

Dave,

This wasn't even my question, but I found your daughter's information fascinating.  I'm copying it and saving it.  Tell her 'thank you' for taking the time to inform us on this.

Linda
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Dave Freas

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Re: Nationality differences in dental work
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2006, 04:31:27 PM »

Thanks, Linda

I'll pass your thanks on to my daughter.

She is a truly outstanding person (I'm not prejudiced.  Not one bit.) with a mind to match.  She's presently working toward her doctorate in forensic anthropology and is always willing to answer questions in that field.

Dave
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Lance Charnes

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Re: Nationality differences in dental work
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2006, 08:05:32 PM »

Dave,

Thanks for passing on your daughter's advice. However, since this is MWF, it's not as straightforward as all that...

In this scenario (which is still highly preliminary), a skeleton wearing a British general's uniform is found in a German Ju-52 at the bottom of a British lake, along with a large sum of money. The uniform, ID tags, rank insignia, watch, etc. are all still in acceptable condition, considering everything. The question -- which leads to the dental examination -- is thus: was our dead person a German posing as a British general on some nefarious business, or was he really British, opening up a whole 'nother can of worms?

I probably should've put this all in the beginning, but didn't think we'd get to this point.
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Bob Mueller

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Re: Nationality differences in dental work
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2006, 10:29:54 PM »

Lance,

To add a bit of detail, make sure you look up the book The Man Who Never Was, which is a fascinating read about Operation Mincemeat, a 1943 British intelligence operation. They took a cadaver, dressed him as a British major, and put him in the ocean such that he would wash up on Spanish shores. The body carried fake intelligence documents intended to deceive the German High Command about the impending invasion of Southern Europe.

The Wikipedia entry has lots of info, but I highly recommend the book as well.
 
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Re: Nationality differences in dental work
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2006, 12:24:03 AM »

Re Bob's comment about The Man Who Never Was:

The book is damned good, and it was dramatized and fictionalized into a pretty decent movie, too.

Of course, since the cadaver was British (Scottish, to be specific), there was no question of his being able to pass as a British military officer.

Lance Charnes

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Re: Nationality differences in dental work
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2006, 10:42:21 AM »

I remember reading that book years ago. It read like a Ludlum novel, but it was all true. The part about sticking theater tickets in the guy's pockets was brilliant.
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