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Author Topic: Is this feasible?  (Read 4662 times)

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Dave Freas

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Is this feasible?
« on: March 06, 2009, 03:48:45 PM »

Hi All.

I want to kill off a secondary character by have a .45 (or 9mm) jacketed round punch through both doors of the car she's hiding behind, hit her in the side, penetrate a lung, nick the heart, and either (a) stop in the other lung or (b) pass completely through her body.  Is this a possibilty assuming the round doesn't hit a rib?

Also, how long would it take her to die?

Thanks up front.

Dave
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Re: Is this feasible?
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2009, 11:07:41 PM »

It seems feasible to me, because I know, for my own safety, I wouldn't take cover behind a car door.  I've seen and read from too many sources that it's not safe.

There's a website, though, called The Box O' Truth, that does a lot of testing.  One of their features is called The Buick O' Truth, and, according to their tests, it's unlikely for a pistol to penetrate both doors.

I would consider the circumstances--and the dramatic implications.  Was she taking cover behind the doors, providing an opportunity for another character to comment that she shouldn't have done that?  Maybe to comment that life and death all comes down to chance, comparing the car and bullet to a pachinko machine?  Was she caught off guard, or did she choose to take cover there?  If she chose to take cover there, why didn't they aim for the legs?

Even if it is bad cover, a car is fairly good concealment.  So, it would be unusual to get shot in the chest through one.

For the bullet to pass through both doors and her side, she would have to have been squatting behind it.  With her side facing the assailant, also.

I read in at least two ninja training books that a puncture to the lung will prevent someone from screaming.  One advised stabbing someone in the armpit for silent killing.  I think the other one was discussing crossbows.  LOL  I don't put much faith in them, but it makes me wonder if she would be able to talk.

I know fighters sometimes get a punctured lung and come out of it fine, so I don't think lung penetration necessarily means death.

A gunshot wound to the heart, as far as I know, almost always kills.  I found an article about it to double-check.

I also found this book excerpt about deer hunting that might help.

The injuries to the lungs and heart, I think, would depend on if they were caused by bullet fragments or an intact bullet; also on if the round bounced around inside the ribcage.

I remember a Discovery Channel show from at least ten years ago in which an EMT or emergency room doctor compared the human body to a water balloon; you can throw it off a roof and stomp on it and be amazed that it didn't pop, but sometimes a tiny pinprick will cause it to burst and collapse.

Then there are stories about officers shooting a man in the heart, who keeps running for 90 seconds.

I think, because the technical details of the injury would be minimal, the reader would fill those in based on the time of death.  If she dies instantly, they must figure she'd had massive blood loss from the heart.  If she can't speak when help arrives, because of the collapsed lung, and then she dies of a heart attack after surgery, they'd figure she must have had a bullet fragment lodged in her heart.

I'd decide how long it takes her to die based on the dramatic needs of the story.  If you don't want any kind of moment between her and another character after she's shot, she should die right away.  (Unless you want someone to comment later about how she died in agony all alone.)

Or:  Her body might slump over, causing her head to impact the curb, knocking her out instantly.  Then she dies some time later, without ever waking up.

For me, I have to see it in my mind.  Whether it's 100% true or not isn't as important as whether I can make it plausible for myself.  So these comments might help.  I'd love to have a table, though, that lists average times for various injuries.
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Bob Mueller

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Re: Is this feasible?
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2009, 01:08:04 AM »

I think the 9mm is more likely to still have enough speed to punch through 2 doors, although as Doc Allen pointed out, pistol rounds in general don't have that much oomph to begin with. 9mm is faster than a 45, so if you're set on that, use the 9.

You can also play with the car type a bit. The doors on an older Corolla aren't as thick as those on a newer Malibu. Smaller cars will have thinner doors.

You could also play with ricochets, if you like. Recall that President Reagan was actually very seriously wounded by Hinckley, and that was just a ricocheting .22 round. But it entered his chest through the ribcage, and punctured a lung, IIRC.

What about a 9mm passing through or breaking a window, diverting into the door frame on the other side, and ricocheting down into your character?
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Re: Is this feasible?
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2009, 02:44:19 AM »

Another point:  If the window is rolled down, a pistol round is a lot less likely to penetrate all the way through.  The more barriers there are, the more the kinetic energy of the slug is going to be depleted, and that pane of safety glass is one more barrier for the slug to have to penetrate.

Police officers are instructed to roll down their windows during high-risk car stops for precisely this reason.

Dave Freas

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Re: Is this feasible?
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2009, 07:24:31 AM »

Thanks for the feedback.

My intended victim is cowering behind the front wheel of the car (a Toyota Celica), frightened out of her wits.  She starts to move toward her companion crouched behind the rear wheel of the car and is hit as she passes the car's door.  The windows are raised (actually both door windows have already been shattered by an earlier round).  I suppose I could have her rise into a sort of runner's crouch to scramble toward her companion and have a round come through the window opening and hit her.

The shooting is a drive-by with the shooter's car is on the same side of the street as the Celica (the shooter firing from the passenger seat).  I'd rather not get into ricochets, although I don't actually get into exactly how the bullet hits her.  And I don't specify exactly what injuries she received actully killed her.  I just wanted to have some idea of her injuries in my mind.

I have her dying moments after the shooting stops and her companion scrambles to her.  I could, I suppose, have her dead when he reaches her side.

Thanks again.

Dave
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