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Author Topic: Anecdotal Procedural Teaser  (Read 3093 times)

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Tony

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Anecdotal Procedural Teaser
« on: April 17, 2008, 04:28:21 AM »

For you to contemplate for a few minutes.

Early in my career an incident occurred which had us all scratching our proverbials for a few minutes in contemplation:
I post it here as a little procedural teaser for you to consider while sipping your coffee.

I was called to the scene of a suspicious death.

On arrival we saw the lifeless body of John...In life John was a blind man, father of two and a man who worked hard for a living.

John had been walking down the road when he was attacked by a gang of scum bags intent on relieving him of his purse and dignity.

John put up a brave struggle and one of the gang members pushed him into the road, directly into the path of oncoming traffic.

John was hit by an oncoming car and died.  The driver was over the drink drive limit.

My question:  Who killed John and what if anything were the parties charged with?

Tony... :) 
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Elena

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Re: Anecdotal Procedural Teaser
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2008, 10:02:40 AM »

It just doesn't have an answer in the US.  There are so many options for charges, and then there are the relative positions of the involved parties, as well as the current local political scene.

Just one example - if the driver were the governer's brother and the governer was not liked by the public services area, and there was a campaign against drunk driving going  on - they would charge him with everything they could think of - starting with littering.

On the other hand, if the governer had just doled out big bucks for public services, and gang control was the current media focus, we'd never hear much of anything about the 'poor' driver.  Certainly not that he was legally drunk.   But those gang members would turn grey before they got out of the slammer.

What charges did you wind up with?

Elena
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Tony

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Re: Anecdotal Procedural Teaser
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2008, 10:15:18 AM »

Hello Elena

In this case the driver, victim and scum bags were not related to anyone from the political scene.

It does not make pleasent reading that the charge would depend on nepotism and political meanderings; I would not like to argue that such nonesense does not go on over on this side of the pond, but people involved in such actions would need to be a bit more discreet than appears to be the case from your post.

I will of course divulge what if anything the parties were charged with, but I will wait and see if there are a few more replies to the thread.

As an accademic question then; what do you think the charges were...?

Tony... :)

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linda

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Re: Anecdotal Procedural Teaser
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2008, 11:34:20 AM »

Sorry, Elena, my criminal charges have never been swayed by political affiliations.  But then, I'm still a patrol officer so you can read whatever you want to in that.   ;)

Tony, I'd charge the gang and the driver.  Their actions all contributed to and made them complicent in his death. 

The gang members by committing a felony in robbing the man and pushing him into the roadway.  If you're involved in a felony act, and  a robbery is a felony, you are responsible for any death that occurs during the felony.  This includes deaths that occurred at the hands of another, but were brought about during the commission of the felony.

On the driver, I would want the investigation to show whether or not a sober driver would have been able to stop prior to hitting the man.  If that were the case, and the driver couldn't stop in time because he was intoxicated, I'd be charging him with Involuntary Manslaughter.

However, I live by the old cop decree, "Kill them all, let God sort them out."  I arrest them all with the realization that they're probably gonna get pleaded down in court anyway.

I'm waiting to see what happened in England.

Linda
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Elena

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Re: Anecdotal Procedural Teaser
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2008, 10:18:12 AM »

Linda,

The scenarios I was describing, which I have personal knowledge of, all occured at higher levels than the arresting officer.  When it does happen, it's usually pretty quiet - however for better or for worse, the actual charge (s) can and does (do) vary from the charge used  initially to bring whoever in.

In my youth, this possibility of changing charges worked in my favor - thank goodness  :D

Tony,  it occurs to me that I might have misinterpreted your question.  I was viewing it as the ultimate charge upon which action is taken.  You may have been asking about what charges were used to get them into the system initially.

Elena
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Tony

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Re: Anecdotal Procedural Teaser
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2008, 04:07:09 AM »

Good morning Elena... :)

Thanks for sticking with this little morning coffee teaser...

You did not misinterpret the question; I cannot fully recall what they were arrested for out on the street, my question remains; what were they charged with to go before the courts?...If anything...

The higher level scanario you make mention of does occur over here too; sometimes it is in fact quite blatent; we have pop stars openly using drugs who never  to go to jail and tefal politicians (nothing ever sticks)
My personal experience is with a "lodge" member; he was dealing in drugs and dodgy high value cars.  I arrested him and had no end of threats made from high ranking police officers I had never met nor heard of...It does happen.

I can say however, it did not happen in this case...So, take a sip of coffee, think on it awhile and ponder on the similarities and perhaps the difference of the British and American systems.... :)

Tony... :) 
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"A man may forget his triumphs
whilst his failures shape him"
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