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[Old Bill]

I say keep the racking line...maybe your protag could use up all his rounds and have an empty gun?

Old Bill

[sam709]

Nope. His mag is 7 rounds. He fires twice at the guy's feet, 3 at the head. So he ejects 2 rounds still in the first mag so he can get a fresh 7 (plus one still in the chamber).

Later, the CSI folks find his ejected mag.

It's part of tactical training. IF you have a quiet interval, dump a nearly-empty mag and reload with a full one, rather than find your pistol empty and slide locked back in the middle of a renewed attack.

Either tactic is okay, I guess, but regardless, his racking the slide on a non-empty pistol will eject a live round and that's too much detritus to add to the narrative to an already complex scenario.

But that's all right. Later in the book is this more "economical" shooting scene:

"He raised the crowbar above his head and charged toward us, screaming obscenities and threatening doom.
I reached under my shirt, pulled out the .45, and shot him twice."

[Old Bill]

Re: shoot scene...nothing like a good double tap. 

Old Bill

[Old Bill]

Okay...I know everyone has been holding their breath waiting to find out what happened to my Bersa 9mm.  Retrieved it from the gunsmith today and it was a BAD ROUND.  I had been using some reloads purchased at a local gun show and apparently during the reloading process, the bottom of the case bulged just enough to jamb...not readily detectable with out a close look.

So after the gunsmith admonished me to use only factory ammo, I took my gun, bought some factory target loads, tucked my tail between my legs and crawled home.

'Nough said.

Old Bill

[linda]

Not enough said, Old Bill - I still don't fully trust autos.

I also used a snub nosed 2 inch S&W revolver as an off-duty gun for years.  That gun never jammed on me once and I even carried it in my purse more than a few times.  If a gun can handle being in a woman's purse, it can handle anything.

I was one of the last to give up my S&W 4 inch when my department went to Autos.  They finally dragged the last of us hold-outs to the range, took our revolvers from us and gave us Beretta autos with the admonishment that these were great guns, they didn't jam, and we were damn lucky to have the chance to use them.

Of the 12 of us there, 3 had to be issued new guns because theirs were so badly messed up.  Six more of us had to leave the range because our guns jammed.  The gun range technicians were getting tired of hearing us grumble about the damn autos and suspected us of being saboteurs and messing the guns up on purpose.  While the thought did cross more than one mind, it was not the truth.

After that fitful start, I've actually gotten to like the auto.  I even got my dad one. 

But that doesn't mean I trust them; one puff of fuzz in there and that gun will jam.

Linda

[Old Bill]

Linda:

What a wonderful daughter you are to buy your dad a gun.  Which one?

When my daughter was young, I familiarized her with several of my guns just because guns were always in the house...locked up, of course.  It turned out she was a very good shot.  Unfortunately, she and her husband will have nothing to do with guns.  Of course, whenever my grandsons come around, we go out back and shoot my airguns...they're expert shots.

Whenever my wife goes out horseback riding alone, she packs my snubby .38 (snake loads)...only because the .357, which she prefers, is too bulky.

Old Bill

[linda]

When they switched us to Sigs, I bought the Beretta auto that I'd been carrying and gave it to my dad. 

He was a little leery of getting an auto at first until my brother explained that this wasn't just a gun; that a cop's service weapon is very important to them, especially when you worked the sides of town that I did.

That connection is part of the reason that our department always lets us purchase our weapons when we switch to another type.  Besides, you don't want to be always wondering if some scumbag got your weapon and is doing something nasty with it.

I also taught my daughter from a very early age on how to handle a weapon.  I took her through the basics with an unloaded weapon when she was in elementary school.  Not that I cared if she became a marksman, I wanted the "allure" of the weapon to be minimal.  I kept it trigger locked and in a lock box, but moms always worry about that one time when things go wrong...

Your wife has the right idea;  I haven't been carrying when I ride alone, but I think I might start.  And not just for the legless rattlers either.   

[JIM DOHERTY]

All the talk about semi-autos reminded me that one of the things I do on Dick Tracy is give gun advice. 

I sent the artist, Joe Staton, photos of the various guns approved for use by the Chicago PD (which requires all officers to buy their own semi-autos; but allows those who trained with revolvers to continue to use the guns they've trained with), and recommended a SIG-Saur, partly because it's a visually interesting weapon (hey, comic strips are a visual medium).

I also suggested, however, that he arm Dick with a snubbie revolver as a back-up. 

A week or two ago, Tracy lost his primary weapon in a hand-to-hand donnybrook with the bad guy (actually girl in this case).  Two days later he pulled out a .38 Detective's Special, and informed the villainess that he always carries a spare.

Nice to be paid attention to.

[Old Bill]

Linda:  That was a nice policy- letting officers buy their service gun.  We didn't have that option since our dept must have used them as trade-ins to get a better price.

...the one time when things go wrong...? Yeah, like the case of the 3yo that got her daddy's gun off the TOP of the refrigerator and blew herself away.  "I never thought she could get up there," said the father.  Heart wrenching. 

Jim:  The DT strip is amazing...you guys are doing a terrific job.  Our dept frowned on backup pieces.  Even our off-duty guns had to be registered with the dept IF they were only purchased and carried on the badge.  If you had a gun permit, you could carry anything off-duty that was registered on the permit.  In NY, guns have to be listed on the permit, but down here in FL the Concealed Weapon/Firearm License allows you to carry anything concealed...and when they say concealed, they mean concealed...THEY DON'T WANT TO SEE IT, PERIOD.  That's why fanny/tummy packs are so popular here. 

Old Bill

Interesting thread...what was the original subject? 

[sam709]

Regarding using reloads, I learned long ago to not trust them. I only use factory loads for practice or self defense. Lots of folks reload their own, which I guess is fine if you're into that and have the time.

I've never been an LEO but my Dad was a, mmm, "special deputy" for the town marshal up in the mountains of Kentucky. He carried a 1911 .45 Colt and I learned to shoot that pistol from age 8-9. I've also carried a concealed weapon at various times myself, for various reasons and in certain jurisdictions, so I'm not a newbie when it comes to carrying a weapon.

Here in Texas (and in many SW or Southern states), LEOs buy their own sidearms (with a generous dealer discount) and for their main duty weapon, are required to own medium-to-high caliber weapons. Absolute minimum is 9mm or .38spl (although revolvers are nowdays frowned upon). Most LEOs I know carry either .40 S&W or .45acp (usually Sig or 1911).

It's a Texas thing, I guess, but most LEOs I know practice a lot and pride themselves in their tactical shooting skills.

This seems to parallel general citizen attitutes re. firearms and self defense. Here, EVERYONE owns guns and there are thousands of concealed carry permits issued. Compare to Chicago, where the constitutional right to bear arms is only apparently granted to Daley cronies or other criminals. Regular citizens can forget it.

There also seems to be a general upward movement throughout the South and Southwest for heavier calibers. Many Houston LEOs routinely carry 1911-style .45s and to own an upscale model (Les Baer, etc) seems to be a point scored in the locker room. But you better be able to make it work at the range, too.

[sam709]

Oh, yeah, Glocks are of course also popular with LEOs. I own several and they're excellent duty weapons. As with other models, LEOs here generally trend away from the lighter 9mm and move up to .40 S&W or .45acp.

[linda]

Sam, I'm a Texas officer so this was especially  interesting to me; "It's a Texas thing, I guess, but most LEOs I know practice a lot and pride themselves in their tactical shooting skills."

Our firearms qualifications are pretty strenuous, including all types of tactical situations and simulator training.  While it is a pride thing, it's also a survival thing; when you're in a gun fight, the adrenalin screws up your aim big time.  So we train hard, and our department prides itself that in shooting situations we hit our targets over 80% of the time.  (Trust me, that's very high for shooting situations.)

You're right, almost everyone here has a CCH and can carry.  And a lot of those who don't have a permit carry also.

Bill, I agree - they trade them in to get the better prices on the new guns - but any officer who wants to buy their own gun can get it for a lower price.  After you've depended on that weapon a few times, sentimentality comes into play and you don't want to see it in someone else's hands.

Jim - many, many years ago, when I started out in a northern State Police Force, we were required to purchase our back-up gun. (That's where my snubbie came from.)  We had cross draw holsters  for our duty weapon and a right side pocket with an insert for the snubbie.  You walked up to the vehicles with your right hand in your pocket, on your snubbie so you were ready if things went wrong. 

And I'm really enjoying your connection with Dick Tracy.  It's not in our papers, but I catch it when I can on the internet.  I'm really glad to hear they listen to you instead of making stupid mistakes.

Bill - you're right - we got all wrapped up in weapons and I've also forgotten what the original question was.   

[sam709]

Linda, thanks for the info. I'm not trying to diss other regional LEOs, it's just that I know the Tx people more recently. When I lived elsewhere the police simply didn't practive at much, but that was years ago and maybe nowdays they are well qualified, too. I hope so.

Tx LEOs also tend to use a higher caliber weapon, and I see many female Deputies sporting a fancy Kimber 1911 .45acp. Shooting a 1911 has been elemental from my childhood so I've become accustomed to the recoil and find it easily manageable. I practice 1 and 2 hand, mix left and right. I'm not an expert shot but I've learned to be pretty well in the black at 25 feet no matter the situation. Practice practice practice.

I'm no pro and never have been a LEO but I've been in a couple dicey situations and hope to use this in my novels to good advantage.

[Bob Mueller]

Trivia for the file:

The grip-to-gun angle on a Glock is different from that of the 1911 design, by only a couple of degrees. I think one is 19 degrees and the other 22 or so. I'm told by a couple of people that if you've shot a 1911 a lot, you'll shoot high with a Glock due to the difference in the grip angle. But if you've never shot an auto, you can take a Glock very well. Supposedly when S&W designed their M&P line, they took the 1911 grip angle.

FWIW, I tend to shoot high with a Glock, but I've tested an M&P, and shot it dead on.