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[Daniel Hatadi]

Arlene, I used to hate present tense too. There were a number of books I deliberately passed over because I thought that present tense was gimmicky or cheating. My idea was that if I was reading the story, it happened in the past, so it should read that way. I eventually got around to reading one book written this way and found that after a chapter or so, I was 'programmed' by the writing and felt that it was natural from there in.

I'm with Ingrid that dialog shouldn't be limited to any particular technique other than writing something that rings true for that character. Some people speak in present tense a lot, others use past tense, many mix as they see fit.

The more I plan my story, the more I see that my past time line is more a series of flashbacks that serve to disorient the MC as well as give them information piece by piece. I think as long as I write these chapters separately, and make sure that the first paragraph or so signals the change to the reader, I should be fine with the headings.

But I'm loving this discussion as it's getting me thinking about all kinds of possibilities.

[Michele Viney]

But I'm loving this discussion as it's getting me thinking about all kinds of possibilities.

Me Too!

[Pomorzany]

Hi, Michele.

Thought of your timeline thread today while reading the latest Sue Grafton ("S is for Silence") that has just hit our Mediterranean shores.
She does something new and succeeds very well at it. While relating the present story line (the usual Kinsey Millhone narrative), she writes chapters headed with a character's name and date (in the fifties, when the crime Kinsey's investigating took place). So there's an interweaving of the present dectection with the past events told by the suspects at the time.
Worth checking out. And a terrific read as well.

Jane Berman

[Michele Viney]

Jane

Thanks for reminding me about the Sue Grafton book, I'd forgotten about it.

My main difficulty had stemmed from the fact that my MC features as much in the 'story-in-the-past' as in the 'story-in-the-present and one of my concerns is giving away too much of my MC's past - especially as she is my amateur sleuth! That and interweaving the stories without giving away too much information too quickly - Hence the planning!

I haven't even thought about tense other than the present story is definitely being told in the past tense. I like the idea of the date headings it might let me keep the whole thing in the past tense.

I just hope I can hold on to the space-time-continuum!
Michele

[ArlineChase]

Leon asked:
Arline,

Please show us examples about --- distinction of having dialog in present and narrative in past, so the reader doesn't get mixed up on what is said aloud and what isn't.

Leon

Okay, here goes: with an example of narrative from a student of mine.

Dialogue in present, narrative in past"

"I don't know what your're saying," Jane said. "I don't wanna be, like, difficult here, but it doesn't make sense to me." Jane hung up the telephone and left the house.

Dialogue in present, narrative in past:

"I don't know what your're saying," Jane says. "I don't wanna be, like, difficult here, but it doesn't make sense to me." Jane hangs up the telephone and leaves the house.

Now of course, if Jane is talking about something that happened in the past she would use past tense in dialogue, as Ingrid pointed out.

Past and present Dialogue: with narrative in past tense:
"I didn't understand what you said on Tuesday," Jane said.  "And I don't understand it any better today! This gets more and more complicated and I don't think you're being fair."   Jane slammed down the phone, shrugged, and wished her friend would stop calling with dumb remarks about her boyfriend.

Past and present Dialogue with narrative in present tense:

"I didn't understand what you said on Tuesday," Jane ays.  "And I don't understand it any better today! This gets more and more complicated and I don't think you're being fair."   Jane slams down the phone, shrugs, and wishes her friend would stop calling with dumb remarks about her boyfriend.
 
People who skim, and they are many, may mix up the "Stop calling with dumb remarks" part with the dialogue and erroneously think Jane actually said that aloud  to her friend.

arline

[Daniel Hatadi]

Just to prove I'm not a skimmer, shouldn't the second example say 'narrative in present tense?' 

I find that people who aren't so well educated can sometimes speak in present tense when they're talking about the past.

e.g.: "She goes up to him, right in front of everyone, and she vomits right on his face!" said Martha, the air-stewardess.

So I say that dialog is completely driven by character.

[Ingrid]

Yes.  Dialog is completely driven by character! Good way of putting it.

Ingrid

[Charles King]

PoV will be an important choice here as will pacing. You don't want several chapters in the present and then one in the past. You'll want to establish early that you're flipping back and forth between periods. PoV. You could probably get away with a close third in both, Omnipresent in both, or first person and then close third, or some combo of these. First and first might be trickier because the reader might get confused of when they are if the flipping isn't distinct enough, or if the voice is too similar, but then you could always have a different character narrator the second timeline. ... You're really going to need outline this on a storyboard, and even if you're not an outliner, I'd recommend it regardless, largely because you're going to want see--more importantly justify-- if flipping back and forth between times in necessary. Nothing complicated. Just try an get an idea of how many scenes take place in the past and the present. You'll want some type of balance here. If it turns out the 70+% of the scenes are in the present, then deploying simple flashbacks might serve the story better. If it's the 70% are in the past, then you might want to write it from the earliest point in the past you can, and tag on the present day scenes at the ending. If you end up flipping between periods you might want to approach it from the idea of writing in blocks. Say three chapters from each period consecutively, or one, or two--maybe one at the beginning to establish the flips. And in that last chapter of each block you'll want a hook, or cliffhanger, or a question posed. This will keep the reader going through the next block. Good luck. 


Charles   
 

[Michele Viney]

Charles

That was such great advice. At the moment, I'm writing a bit of the present-day story, simply because the opener for that time period came to me really clearly and I wanted to write it while the images were clear in my mind. But the mystery element is so deeply rooted in the past and I need to find out more about that.

I like the idea of writing in blocks but I don't want to get too caught up in one time line and spend too much "time" there so that when the action changes to the other time line the reader has to flip back to remind themselves where the last bit of action in that time line left off. Goodness I'm even confusing myself!

I also like the idea of the story board, I can see that working as part of my plan. Moving slips of paper with the ideas on them - even if it is only a word or two that explains that portion of the story - I can see what needs to go where.

These are all great ideas - thanks everyone

Michele

[Kathy Wendorff]

Michele, someone on another board once said she storyboarded using Powerpoint, using different color backgrounds for different threads. The slides were easy to rearrange. Sometimes she printed out the slides and used them like index cards; sometimes she ran them as a Powerpoint slide show, which apparently gave her a good sense for pacing.

I haven't tried it myself yet, but it sounds like a nifty idea, and one which might work for you.

Kathy W.

[Charles King]

Post-its are pretty useful, that's what I do.

Charles 

[Ingrid]

Never could make a story board work.  But Post-its are the most important item in my planning.  If nothing else, they remind where I stopped (page and line) and what I planned to do next. They also serve to jot down sudden brilliant ideas or, alas, realizations of a mistake somewhere in the book. Attached to the monitor, they have dates and seasons of past episodes, or lists of names of minor characters.
I couldn't live without them.

Ingrid

[Susan August]

I also love the Post Its that are like tabs.  Best bookmarks!  I have them hanging all over the house, wherever I was when I finished the last book.  The nice thing is that they don't fall out of the book when I fall asleep reading. 

Not to worry about my TV challenges, Ingrid.  We have more TVs than any house should have, and I really prefer to read books.  The only time I "watch" is when hubby turns the TV on, so of course, he's driving the remote. 

Susan