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[Angie]

A few questions...

I've been poking around trying to get a sound file for a 9mm gunshot (not a gun person, don't think I've ever actually heard one fired).  Basically I'm wondering about how, in general terms it would sound.  Nothing fancy like a silencer, just a straight up gunshot sound heard from a short distance away - no more than a few feet from the shooter.  Also, how much damage would a 9mm round be capable of doing (I've got a gut-shot scenario working)?  Thanks for any help with this!

Angie J-S

[JIM DOHERTY]

Angie,

Basically, it's more like a sharp pop or snap than a loud bang.

How much damage would one do?  That all depends.  Presuming that the target is a normally healthy adult, a round-nosed bullet may pass right through the target without doing much damage.

A hollow-point, on the other hand, will, if it works right, start to expand on entry and could cause a good deal of internal damage and blunt trauma by the time it comes to rest.  And, if it's a hollowpoint, it's much more likely to come to rest than to exit.

A frangible load, like the Glaser Safety Slug (do they make those anymore?), consists of a lot of small shot suspended in ballistic jelly, enclosed by a thin shell.  The shell comes apart on entry and the shot is released inside the target.  There is never an exit wound and the damage caused by the shot is usually hellacious.  Frangible loads never ricochet, either, which increases the safety factor in a firefight.

On the other hand, if it's winter, and the target is wearing a lot of heavy layers of clothing, hollowpoints have been known to cut a small piece of cloth through every layer on their way to the target, such that, by the time the slug finally reaches body, the hollow tip has been filled with fabric, causing it to act in much the same way that a round-nosed slug acts when it enters the target.  It doesn't expand the way it should, and consequently won't cause us much damage.

I've heard (and take this with a grain of salt) that the same multiple layers will cause a frangible slug to break up before it even gets to the body, which means no damage to the target because the round never gets to the target.

Hope that helps.

[Chase]

Angie,

All of Jim's remarks are on target (sorry).  As in the case of all sounds, a pistol report depends on the surroundings.  A 9mm Luger is a mid-sized cartridge, but in a closed room with bare walls, it would bark sharply and loudly to unprotected ears.  With each piece of soft furniture or open window you add to the scene, sound would be absorbed, and the report would slide down from M-80 cherry bomb magnitude to a Black Cat firecracker.

They are technically sound waves, but don’t forget the concussion effect on skin surfaces.  This has somewhat to do with Doppler effect, but if the muzzle is pointed in your direction, a middle-to-large bore pistol at close quarters is louder than if pointed away.  There will usually be ringing in your ears, and you can feel the blast on your skin, even if the bullet misses.

If outside away from walls, the sound will lose some of the sting on eardrums and skin.  A firecracker going off is still a good comparison for those unfamiliar with pistol reports, but there will be less reverberation.  Many steps away from the muzzle blast, the sound will diminish to the crack of a dry board slapped with splitting force against a flat surface. 

Especially inside but outside as well, your nose picks up the acerbic tang of burnt nitrates, something like a whiff of lawn fertilizer within a pile of burning autumn leaves.  In a 9mm round, it won’t be the smell of cordite, so you probably will want to avoid that cliché.

As Jim said, the effects of the bullet in soft tissue will depend on its construction.  A 9mm bullet is the same diameter as a .357, but is usually 90 to 110 grains in weight, rather than 158 grains.

If the bullet has a full metal jacket, it will cause less damage.  A half-jacketed bullet may expand more, doing more internal damage.  A soft, all-lead bullet may expand even more, but understand that pistol rounds are basically hole-drillers and do not have the velocity to do the damage of a rifle bullet.

Are you locked into using a 9mm semi-automatic?  If not, a .357 Magnum or larger revolver bullet may do more damage to the gut, if that’s what you want.  Anyway, you as the writer control the path of the bullet, and our medical members can probably supply better gory details for whatever effect you want from a through-and-through shot with a full metal jacket that exits the body without fatal damage to a shot disrupting vital organs to cause immediate-to-lingering death.

Although there may be some repetition, I hope this additional take is as helpful as the one above.

Chase

[Lee Lofland]

I'd like to add one other point to Jim's very detailed answer.

The sound that's heard will definitely depend on the situation and who is hearing the shot. I know this "sounds" a bit odd, but it's true. A gun shot sounds much different when it's heard in a controlled situation, like on a firing range than it does when you're on the receiving end of the bullet.

In a non-threatening situation, the shots may sound much louder - more like a small boom. During a gun battle they may only sound like tiny little "pops." To someone who has never been around a gun before, a shot may sound like a cannon.

Prior to the shoot out I was in, gun shots sounded like Jim described, sharp pops. During the actual shoot out they sounded like tiny, muffled hand claps (like when someone's clapping their hands while wearing gloves). Now, even years later, a single gun shot sounds like a freaking nuclear bomb going off.

It's all in the ear of the beholder.

By the way, the same is true for all the senses. Adrenaline stirs and mixes our senses like a kaleidoscope when we are forced into the old "fight or flight" mode.

Also, I can say with experience that it's possible to be shot several times with a 9mm and not see any real damage. In those cases there were tiny entry and exit wounds that were no larger than the bullet itself. I've even seen someone shot in the head without any damage other than two tiny holes. The head shot was actually not more than an annoyance to the suspect. He kept right on shooting back.

Chase is right, a .357 is the way to go if you want damage. They can leave behind quite a bit of destruction.

[Janet Koch]

Prior to the shoot out I was in, gun shots sounded like Jim described, sharp pops. During the actual shoot out they sounded like tiny, muffled hand claps (like when someone's clapping their hands while wearing gloves). Now, even years later, a single gun shot sounds like a freaking nuclear bomb going off.

Interesting insight. Thanks, Lee.

Janet

[JIM DOHERTY]

Angie,

Lee makes a good point.  Gunshots sound different on the range than they do in the field.  This is due, not only to the increased adrenalin that comes from being in an actual shooting, but from the fact that on the range you're wearing ear protectors.

That said, 9 mm's always sounded like more of a sharp pop than a heavy explosion to me.  Revolvers, even though the slug size and powder charge wasn't appreciatively greater, always sounded more like a low boom.

Shotguns, of course, make a very loud bang.

[Angie]

Great information - thank you all.  The scenario is outside of a barn in the desert, so the variations on the sound perceptions are really helpful.  Thanks especially for the scent info, Chase.  Smell is a great detail, IMO. 

I'm leaning toward a hollow-point 9mm Glock.  (The hollow-point for the damage.)  If any of you are familiar with a more commonly used weapon for a gang kid, let me know.  This is one that I've heard kids talk about a lot from my work with adjudicated youth & chose it for that reason.  Any other suggestions or thoughts are welcome, though.

Again, you guys are the best!

[Dave Freas]

Hi, Angie.

Damage-wise, any bullet in the gut is going to do major harm.  Depending on the entry angle, it could hit the stomach, liver, spleen, pancreas, kidneys, small intestine, large intestine, or spinal cord.  And right in the middle of all that is that nice big aorta running down toward the legs.  Punch a hole in that and six men walk slow with you in a box on their shoulders.  Even round nosed bullets will tumble to some extent after entering the body so there's always the possibility the round could hit bone (vertebra or pelvic bones--again depending on the entry angle) and ricochet off in some weird direction and hit the bladder or urethra or go the other way and penetrate the diaphragm and hit the lungs or heart.

Hope this helps.

Dave

[Lee Lofland]

I've found that a lot of kids are using the name "Glock" as slang for any brand name of 9mm pistols, even the super cheap ones, like Davis. People did the same thing when talking about various chemical sprays, like tear gas and pepper spray. A lot of folks (even some police officers) call them all, Mace when Mace is actually a particular company's brand name.

By the way, Glocks are not inexpensive (and for your story's sake, there is no safety on a Glock).

Jim reinforces my point. Gun shots sound differently to him than they do to me. Obviously, we've both fired many, many rounds in our lifetime that were probably very similar in composition, yet there's still a bit of a difference in our opinions. And, since I was in that shootout every gun shot sounds like a boom to me - no matter how big or small, with or without hearing protection.

You know how it is, some say tomato, some say bang or boom...or pop. I just try to stay on the right end of the gun barrel and keep my hands and feet inside the car at all times. I also buckle up and spay and neuter my pets.

[Lee Lofland]

Man, see what happens when you toss us a donut. We just ramble on forever.

[Elena]

The difference in sound perception is a new idea to me - now I understand an experience i had.  At the office one day a male employee tried to commit suicide.  Everyone around me thought it was someone slamming a file drawer - I was the only one who thought it was a gun and checked it out.  He lived, and got the help he needed, but after that most of the people there pretended I didn't exist.  So, there was a strong emotional/cultural response to the whole thing too.

I suppose it's a lot like the diversity one finds among eye witnesses.

Elena

[Susan August]

I've even seen someone shot in the head without any damage other than two tiny holes. The head shot was actually not more than an annoyance to the suspect. He kept right on shooting back.

Lee...that's amazing.  How can someone get shot in the head with so little damage?  Did the bullet skim the skull or actually break through??

Elena,
What a difficult experience at work!  Not sure what your work is, but it must have been devastating for folks to pretend you don't exist.  Hard enough to even be involved in such a situation.  Do you still work there?

Susan

[Lee Lofland]

This particular guy was shot just below the temple area near the temporal-mandibular joint where the upper and lower jaw meet. The bullet exited from his neck. There were only two small holes from this round. I was on a hill and he was below me so the bullet was traveling on a downward angle. He did fall down, but stood up and began firing again. He smiled the entire time.

There was a case in the city of Richmond, Va. where a suspect was shot 33 times by police (9mm) and never fell down. He was finally wrestled to the ground, handcuffed and carried to the hospital. Brenda may remember this case. She's from that area.

[Elena]

Not sure what your work is, but it must have been devastating for folks to pretend you don't exist.  Hard enough to even be involved in such a situation.  Do you still work there?

This happened in the late 60's at IBM in Chicago just a few months before I quit rather than losing my job to downsizing.  I went into college professoring for a while, then a bunch of wildly disparate stuff in between computer jobs and finally wound up a professor of Computer Science in an engineering college in GA until I retired. 

On the job I actually wasn't aware that I was being ignored until someone 'kindly' told me.  I was responsible for problem solving and fixing the input/output code of a proprietary software and the people I worked with were all in NYC.  I spent more time commuting to NY than I spent in the office -  it was a fortunate thing I happened to be there that day, and I guess fortunate for the man involved that my childhood was violent, so I was familiar with the sound.  He had tried to shot himself in the head, but fortunately an inner survival instinct must have kicked in and he shot himself across the forehead.  Much blood, little danger.  I got people to bring me wet paper towels, mopped him up, held his hand and listened to him until the ambulance came.

I've often wondered about the gun - it was quite heavy for it's size, chunky, and very dark.  Not wanting to touch it, I upended a waste basket, captured it, and slid it out of the way.

Elena

[Susan August]

Gee, and I'm thinking corporate life back then was so much tamer!  Especially at IBM.  My hubby is an ex-IBMer, RIF'd out in the 90's to what I call "rehirement".  That is, he left with his pension intact, but moved on to the next round waiting for energy and age level to warrant 'real' retirement.  He's still waiting, but considers himself semi-retired now. 

Susan