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[Michele Viney]

Hi All
I feel quite nervous starting off a topic but here it goes.

I've had an idea about a story, but it has two different time lines one in the present and another 20 years in the past. Most of the characters will appear in both time lines.

What is your advice about maintaining the story in each time line? In a recent 'Meet the Author' thing Peter Robinson was asked the same question and he said that he ended up writing each time line on its own (I think he wrote the 'past' story first and then the 'present' one) and only interwove them in subsequent drafts. I'm not sure if this would work for me as I find that I write very organically. Sometimes I fear too organically letting the story lead me around by the nose and not necessarily where I had initially intended it to go! I must learn to be more disciplined!

Any thoughts and observations gratefully appreciated

Cheers
Michele

[Bob Mueller]

I'm not sure what you mean by writing organically.

The way I write, I'd probably just write each timeline as it spoke to me. That is, if for several days, the early timeline characters were speaking to me, I'd write that, until the later one popped up to talk to me.

Not sure if that makes sense, but that's the my my mind tends to work.

[Leon]

Michele,

Timelines are a general concept, relation, or fact of continuous or successive existence, capable of division into measurable portions of duration in which something develops, or fails to develop, or has developed, or will develop. Timelines may be measured in seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, decades, generations, centuries, etc.. Timelines help keep events in logical order, and help develop suspense.

   Date. 1-8-78
   Time. 1:30 pm.
   Event. Gun shot.

   Date. 1-8-78
   Time. 2:15 pm.
   Event. Detectives investigate.

   Date. 1-8-78
   Time. 2:30 pm.
   Event. Gun is found.

   Date. 1-8-78
   Time. 3:00 pm.
   Event. A body is found.

The format may be used to develop a timeline for any character(s) and/or any thing(s).

Leon

[Kathy Wendorff]

Michele, have you read Louis Sachar's "Holes"? That book is a tour-de-force of integrating multiple storylines taking place at different times.

I don't know how he did it, but each storyline proceeds logically and pretty much chronologically, and when you switch from the past back to present-day, what you just discovered about the past drives or explains the present day narrative forward, and often vice versa. (There's one slightly jarring out-of-synch scene toward the end. Just one.)

I'm not explaining it well at all -- just read the book if you haven't already. It's a kid's book, and a quick read, and a wonderful book.

Kathy W.

[Lance Charnes]

I've done this twice, now. What seems to work best for me is to outline each story seperately, as if they were going to stand alone, then bring the two outlines together in parallel (spreadsheets work well for this) and make sure the plot points line up the way you want them to. This second step may require that you move things around to make the two stories line up.

It was much easier for me to write each story seperately, especially since they have different narrators (first-person in the modern story, third in the backstory) and are set in wildly different eras. It helped make sure each storyline flowed and maintained its internal logic.

[Michele Viney]

Wow thanks guys

I was feeling a little daunted. But all your advice has helped.

Bob it sounds like you write like I do. I usually write the scenes that speak to me. Of course that lands me in trouble when I find it difficult to write invisible bridges between the scenes.
Leon what I intend is that my mystery has its foundations in what happens in a small town in the mid 1980's and a perplexing discovery in the same town 20 years later. Hence my two time lines.
Kathy I have heard of "Holes" it became quite a good movie I seem to remember, I'll certainly check it out - going to the library tonight.
Lance your way sounds the most logical and planned, it looks like I am going to have to bite the bullet and actually plan this one - why does that sound like homework! I feel too old for home work! Sorry whine over. Since in the early part of my story my MC is a teenager, I've been putting myself back in that mindset.

Thanks for all your help

Michele

[Ingrid]

Peter Robinson is right. It's the safe way.

I just struggled with a novel that spans 18 years and links separate stories of four characters with the historical events of the time. That nearly drove me mad, because I couldn't keep the years straight. My novel is straightforward chronological, but because the different characters are in different locations, it created problems.  I kept misplacing two years along the way. And that was due to the fact that I also proceeded "organically."

Ingrid (who made new timelines before, during, and after the fact.

[Daniel Hatadi]

Amazing. I was thinking about posting a question on this very topic. It's not one I've seen discussed before on a forum (maybe I don't get around enough). I ended up making some decisions before I posted, so it might be helpful to Michele if I share.

I'm also dealing with the issue of timelines, as my next novel will alternate between two: one in the present, one set around 1910, both in Australia. I have a rough shape for both timelines, but as Kathy mentioned, I want them to interact. The one in the past will affect events in the present.

The reason I wanted to post about this was because I was having trouble deciding on tense/person. Should I set the past timeline in past tense and the present timeline in present? What person for each? In the end, I ended up writing a sketch or two as an experiment, because I think that decisions like this are entirely dependent on the particular story in question. I settled on third person, present tense for the present timeline which makes up most of the story. The timeline in the past will be in first person, past tense. This part of the story will be more like a flashback, as the sequences will be happening to someone that is possessed by a spirit. Don't worry, I'm not going all horror on MWF. Everything will revolve mostly around crime, but the supernatural aspect is an important part of what I'm trying to do.

In terms of writing the timelines, it's good to hear what others have done. I'll probably jump around between the two a fair bit as I come up with plot points in either.

And yes, this is my NaNoWriMo project, and I am insane.

[Michele Viney]

Daniel

You are insane. But your project sounds like fun!

However the more I think about my project the more I realise that I'm going to have to think and plan and work on plot points and characters before hand - write by bible in other words! rather than let all that happen before I get to the nice bit - i.e. the actual writing. I was very interested in what you said about tense/person. that hadn't really occurred to me. I'm going to have to think about that one.

Daniel if you are interested in looking at other writers that mix the supernatural with mystery - there is an Irish crime writer, John Connolly who does it rather well. All right, I'm biased, he's a mate. But thinking about it you don't exactly have a lot of time before 1/11.

Have fun and I don't expect we'll hear from you for a while.

Cheers
Michele

[Matthew S.]

Michele,

Sounds like you and I have similar styles.  I sit to write and let the story pretty much tell itself.  And yes, it is irritating when a character or plot doesn't go according to plan.  I told this story before but in WARPING THE MIND, my first Arbiter novel, I was on the next to last chapter when I realized that someone I had written as a major character in the series was going to die.  I did everyhting I could think of to keep him alive but, nope, he got killed anyway. 

I think fiction writers are the only people who have any idea what god must go through when he looks down on us.

It sounds like what you need is an outline.  My advise is to set up an outline for each time period and then, when you begin to write, just write.

Matthew S.

[ArlineChase]

Dear Michelle, and Daniel, too.

Re tense:  I have a real thing about hating present tense, probably caused by having a bunch of teeny-boppers (I was the only one in the room over 30, including the "professor") tell me I wasn't "forward thinking enough" because  all MY stories were written in past tense and theirs were ALL written in present That was  in a 1980s  University Writing Class.  Now of course, with people like Lisa Scottoline writing whole books in present tense, it has become passe to the academics.

However, I like the distinction of having dialog in present and narrative in past, so the reader doesn't get mixed up on what is said aloud and what isn't. So if the book Michelle is planning were mine (and it's not!) I'd use the general consensus of Present tense for dialog, past tense for narrative, and past perfect tense for anything that happened before the story or scene's present time.

One suggestion for helping the reader along would be to use Datelines at the beginnings of scenes. Just the date and place, on a line above the beginning of a scene.  I once did a novella with two first person viewpoint characters and helped the reader by setting the viewpoint character's name in bold type at the beginning of each scene. Just so they could keep up with who "I" was for the nonce. I wrote that nearly 30 years ago and my fellow-students "loved" it, but i don't think I'd choose to  write a story with two first-person viewpoint characters NOW.

"Then and Now" plots are hard to write, but they are well worth the trouble. Book examples include ANATOMY OF A MURDER. A  movie to watch might be EDDIE AND THE CRUISERS, an oldie, but a goodie unless you HATE the Beaver Brown Band. I think they used datelines even in the movie to orient the viewer to the flashback scenes.

As long as the reader isn't confused by the finished product, write your book  any darned way that feels right to you.  There's NO wrong way to do it, as long as you Write.

arline

[Ingrid]

Sorry, Arline, but I don't follow the dialogue business. Tense in dialogue follows its own rules, regardless of the tense of the narrative.

Ingrid

[Eric]

Peter Robinon's 60's laced Piece of My Heart was a good read.  Two cops working nearly 40 years apart.  Both done in 3rd person past as I recall.  I wouldn't want to try a book like that without some bare bones outlining at least.

Eric

[Leon]

Arline,

Please show us examples about --- distinction of having dialog in present and narrative in past, so the reader doesn't get mixed up on what is said aloud and what isn't.

Leon

Dear Michelle, and Daniel, too.

Re tense:  I have a real thing about hating present tense, probably caused by having a bunch of teeny-boppers (I was the only one in the room over 30, including the "professor") tell me I wasn't "forward thinking enough" because  all MY stories were written in past tense and theirs were ALL written in present That was  in a 1980s  University Writing Class.  Now of course, with people like Lisa Scottoline writing whole books in present tense, it has become passe to the academics.

However, I like the distinction of having dialog in present and narrative in past, so the reader doesn't get mixed up on what is said aloud and what isn't. So if the book Michelle is planning were mine (and it's not!) I'd use the general consensus of Present tense for dialog, past tense for narrative, and past perfect tense for anything that happened before the story or scene's present time.

One suggestion for helping the reader along would be to use Datelines at the beginnings of scenes. Just the date and place, on a line above the beginning of a scene.  I once did a novella with two first person viewpoint characters and helped the reader by setting the viewpoint character's name in bold type at the beginning of each scene. Just so they could keep up with who "I" was for the nonce. I wrote that nearly 30 years ago and my fellow-students "loved" it, but i don't think I'd choose to  write a story with two first-person viewpoint characters NOW.

"Then and Now" plots are hard to write, but they are well worth the trouble. Book examples include ANATOMY OF A MURDER. A  movie to watch might be EDDIE AND THE CRUISERS, an oldie, but a goodie unless you HATE the Beaver Brown Band. I think they used datelines even in the movie to orient the viewer to the flashback scenes.

As long as the reader isn't confused by the finished product, write your book  any darned way that feels right to you.  There's NO wrong way to do it, as long as you Write.

arline

[Ingrid]

Peter Robinon's 60's laced Piece of My Heart was a good read.  Two cops working nearly 40 years apart.  Both done in 3rd person past as I recall.  I wouldn't want to try a book like that without some bare bones outlining at least.

Eric


I just read that.  Yes, very good book and well handled, though the details already escape me.

Ingrid